Episode 372: In this episode, I speak with my client Shannon about living for 20 years with an eating disorder shaped by under-eating, over-exercise and an identity built around movement, despite appearing highly functional from the outside. She shares what it took to stop exercising, eat enough and face the physical and emotional discomfort of recovery, and how doing so transformed her health, relationships and sense of self.
00:00:00
00:03:25
00:06:25
00:16:06
00:24:15
00:29:09
00:34:51
00:38:52
00:45:24
00:48:30
00:54:27
00:59:59
01:05:00
01:16:53
00:00:00
Chris Sandel: Hey, everyone. Welcome to Episode 372 of Real Health Radio. I’m your host, Chris Sandel. I’m a nutritionist and a coach and an eating disorder expert, and I help people to fully recover.
Today on the show, I’m actually interviewing a client. Her name is Shannon. This is a kind of episode I used to do more frequently in the past; I don’t really know why I stopped doing these. Just maybe got out of the rhythm of doing it. But I always enjoy doing these episodes, and so hopefully will start to do these a little more frequently.
A bit of context on Shannon. I started working with her back last year, in July of 2025, and we’re still having sessions at this point. They’re pretty infrequent by now, but we’re still working together. Shannon is someone who’d lived with an eating disorder for 20 years before getting into contact with me, and as you’ll hear in the interview, she didn’t necessarily know it was an eating disorder; she wouldn’t have thought about it that way until more recently.
What we cover as part of this is the progress that she’s made in this time. And she’s made a lot of amazing progress during this time. She is not fully recovered; she’s still working on certain aspects of recovery. But I really just wanted to share her story and share what she’s been through in this time together, because from making some big changes, from doing it consistently, she’s seen a complete change in her life and so many aspects of it.
It’s also always interesting hearing Shannon or a client talk about their experiences with this and the way that they phrase certain things or focus on certain things. There’s definitely a tendency sometimes when I’m hearing it to be like, “I wouldn’t put it that way” or “There was more to it than that” or wanting to jump in, but this is what Shannon remembers, this is how it felt for her, and that’s really the important part of these episodes: to be able to hear what it was like from a client’s perspective to work with me and to go through this process and to notice what they notice and have the changes that they got.
So, this episode, if you’re listening to this, if you resonate with Shannon’s story – like so often is the case, there’s not going to be an exact match in terms of her story and yours, but if there’s certain aspects that you resonate with and you’re wanting help in this kind of stuff, then I would love to be able to support you in this. You can send an email to info@seven-health.com or you can send a message on Instagram @sevenhealthcompany and just put ‘coaching’ or put ‘support’ either in the subject line or in the DM message, and I can get the details over to you.
So, let’s get on with the show. Here is my conversation with my client Shannon.
Hey, Shannon. Welcome to the podcast.
Shannon: Hey! Thank you.
Chris Sandel: I really want to, as part of today, be able to share your story of us working together and what has happened as part of that, and also the things that happened before we started working together. But you were just a real demonstration of what happens when you start to make changes in recovery and you get to see the benefits of that.
00:03:25
So I guess to start with, what was your relationship with food and exercise and everything like as a kid, before all of this started?
Shannon: I was actually thinking back on that. I had a really I think positive relationship with food, which is funny because I know a lot of people with eating disorders, it tends to start really young. I’ll get to it in a little bit, but I feel like mine really started in college.
In high school, I don’t remember ever questioning what I ate or even thinking about it. I had really positive, healthy examples in my household of balancing food. My mom loves candy or certain things, Peeps. [laughs] She can eat multiple of, and would. And both my parents exercised for fun, but it was nothing extreme.
Also, we would have a balance of healthy cereals versus the more sugary cereals, or there would always be a candy jar sitting on the counter that was available to us. Which I always compared to other friends’ households where that stuff was always – if it was banned or they could never have the sugary cereal, they never had any candy out, then they would come over to my house and just binge on it because it was never accessible.
And I even remember questioning some of my friends’ behaviour, especially into high school, where I was actually concerned they weren’t eating enough. I think back to some of my high school – because for whatever reason, in high school – this blows my mind, still – but they would make these chocolate chip cookies. They were Otis Spunkmeyer cookies, so they would bake them fresh in the morning, at like 6:30 in the morning, and they’d smell delicious. And sometimes I would have like two cookies and a donut for breakfast and that would be my breakfast. But again, it was because it was good and it was available, so that was never an issue.
And I played all the sports growing up. Competitive soccer was my primary, but then I did high school soccer in the fall and then basketball I did a couple years of my high school and then track, even. So I was constantly moving my body.
From a cycle standpoint, I remember that my periods were pretty regular and normal. They didn’t really bother me; I didn’t have any extremes, which was really lucky. But I was cycling all the way until my sophomore year in college.
Chris Sandel: Nice. It sounds like you had quite a good start with all this stuff, maybe a fairly idealised start with all this stuff.
00:06:25
So when did it start to change, and what brought about some of that change?
Shannon: I think the first time that I started really worrying about my calories and how it was impacting my body is probably after I tore my ACL, my sophomore year in college. Because again, my freshman year, I remember – I was playing college soccer, so we would have training session twice a day sometimes, and I remember going out to eat with my brother and his friend to this place that was known for their football-size calzones. Football meaning American football, so they legit were massive.
My brother and his friend and I went out to eat, and I ate an entire one of them. It was right in the middle of our two-a-days, and I remember my brother being really impressed and proud of me, like “Oh my gosh, that’s amazing!” [laughs]
Or I constantly – I loved these cookie ice cream sandwich things in the dorms. So again, my freshman year was a non-issue. But then I tore my ACL my sophomore year of college, and I don’t know what switched or why I suddenly was worried about it, but I think because my whole life, I had been so active, never really had to think about that energy-activity balance, and all of a sudden I had a surgery, I wasn’t going to be able to play soccer for a good nine months, probably.
And then I guess it would’ve been maybe five months after I tore my ACL, I also had to get my tonsils out, so then there was another setback. I remember I had gained some weight at that time, and I think that was the first time I started being more concerned about what I was eating and being more intentional of like, “Maybe I’ll have the salad bar” versus different things. But again, nothing extreme and not intentionally dieting.
I ended up returning back to soccer, and I think really the point where everything changed was when I studied abroad, which was my senior year. I was done playing college soccer and I think in my mind, I had this thing that everybody was always like, “Oh, you go and you gain weight when you study abroad” because people drink and they do this and that. So for whatever reason, that was a big fear of mine.
So I think there I was definitely more rigid. It was also a thing where I lived with a host family, so they would serve me, so I would also just eat what they had, but then I remember it was convenient and I would grab fruit and maybe a bread roll for lunch. But I ended up losing [redacted] pounds, which I didn’t really have a ton of weight to lose anyway. In our sessions together, I learned that there’s times where that’s when the eating disorder ‘turns on’, is a period of significant weight loss or extreme stress.
So in my mind, I don’t know for sure that that’s the on switch, but that’s what I always think of as probably the on switch because it was from there then I got down to probably one of the lowest weights that I’ve been at. And then I think it became that thing where I was like, “Oh, this is the weight that I should be at” or I liked being at because my mind was telling me it was a healthy weight or ‘thin is better’, which obviously is not the case at all.
But yeah, I really do think that was probably a pivotal – why it turned on, maybe. And there’s probably a lot of factors that come into it, but that was certainly the biggest one, where I remember coming back from Ecuador and my family being like, “Oh my gosh, you’ve lost a lot of weight.”
I didn’t feel like it was super intentional. I did feel like it was just a means of being in a different country, eating different foods. My host family served me the dinner and the breakfast, and I continued to work out there, but I didn’t have access to a gym, so I would just do push-ups and sit-ups and I would walk/run with my host mom. But nothing crazy. But I still lost that weight, so I think that’s really probably when it started.
Chris Sandel: With you coming back, obviously you said when you’d gone to that big meal with your brother, it was praised. So with them seeing hat you’d lost weight, starting to see these changes, was that praised? Was there concern? What happened at that point?
Shannon: For my family, I definitely think it was some concern. But I also think – I don’t know, I had not felt like it was intentional. I didn’t feel like it was a problem, so I was just like, “No, it’s just because – and it’ll get better.”
But then from there, I got back and basically within a month and a half, I went to nursing school, which was extremely stressful for me. I had gotten my bachelor’s in public health, so it was like three semesters instead of four. Like a lot of people that have eating disorders, I think, I am very much a Type A perfectionist. So they tell you that you’re reading page 157 to 384, I’m like, “I have to read every single page because there could be something in there that then I see a patient and I’m not going to know how to treat them because I didn’t do the reading.” It was just very stressful.
I remember that time specifically was where I was eating the ‘light and fit’ yogurts as my breakfast, or just very much diet foods, very low calories. I was exercising a ton and I felt like that was my stress outlet. So that year in particular definitely enhanced the eating disorder at that point.
Chris Sandel: Would you have referred to it as an eating disorder at that point? When did you recognise, “This is a problem” or “This is having an impact on me” or “I don’t have the control that I think I had before”?
Shannon: Honestly, in the time – I lived with this on some level for like 20 years, and I really don’t think it was until 2025, when I started listening to your podcast about hypothalamic amenorrhea that I really, truly was like, “Yeah, I have an eating disorder on some form of the spectrum.”
All throughout the years, there was ebbs and flows where I would be exercising too much, so then I would shift my eating, or I was very restrictive in what I was eating but I also got so sucked into diet culture. There was a health and fitness coach. So there were all these things I was constantly like, “Do low carb” or “Do this” or “Avoid this” or gluten-free.
There was definitely times throughout these 20 years periodically that I’d have conversations with family members who were worried about me. But again, i would gain 5 pounds and feel like I was in a good spot and would be exercising a little bit less. Or then I was having babies, so I was gaining weight, but then I would go postpartum and I would lose all the weight again, trying to get there.
So it was this back and forth where I really just thought – it was definitely that orthorexia from the fitness standpoint, for sure, of like “I’m being healthy.” And same with the eating. I really just thought I was being super healthy. And I think that’s how other people perceived it also, like “Oh, she’s just the healthy one. She’s very health-conscious.”
It really wasn’t until I started listening to your podcasts and really wanting to dive more into treating my hypothalamic amenorrhea, which nobody had ever really done over the years. Instead it was like, “Oh, you have hypothalamic amenorrhea and you want babies, so we’re going to send you to IVF.” I just didn’t even know or think that I could just look at my energy balance and fix that and fix the problem.
But yeah, it was like a light bulb went on after hearing a couple of your podcasts where I was just like, “Hmm, okay, I need to do something about this.”
00:16:06
Chris Sandel: Sure. And I know we’re trying to condense 20 years into a few short minutes, but what were some of the symptoms that were going on during that time, and maybe that you’ve recognised now which at the point, you didn’t even realise was going on? Whether this is physical stuff, mental/emotional stuff, all that.
Shannon: Probably the biggest thing was my anxiety. Some depression in there too, but I think certainly more anxiety that I feel like peaked after my twins, which also makes sense, because they were born just a few months before Covid happened.
But I didn’t realise until I started recovering and got into recovery and now that that was so much tied to my eating disorder. I just thought, “I’m a Type A person, so I’m prone to being more anxious and that’s just the way it is”, whereas now it’s like night and day of how I can respond to things, what things stress me out, what it takes to get me – I mean, I would have panic attacks. And now, it would take a lot, I think, for that to happen. So that was certainly a really big part of it.
I think just the mental space and time that I spent on thinking about food, worrying about eating out, and “Is there going to be something that is acceptable and ‘healthy’ enough?” Really just having this idea that there were foods that are ‘good’ and ‘bad’ and moralising them.
And then I completely overexercised, didn’t take rest days. It made me anxious if I had to miss a workout or didn’t get to do exactly what I wanted or it wasn’t at least one hour long, whatever that was.
And then physically, I was exhausted all the time. My hair was pretty thin; I had a lot more hair loss. My nails were pretty brittle. A lot of this was more towards the end that I realised.
I had a lot of GI issues, and I think so much of that was that I just was not getting enough nutrients. Of course, it went down this whole spiral of like, “You have IBS.” I saw this one person that, sure enough – it was not even real testing. It was this muscle testing, and anyway, she told me I should avoid gluten and dairy. So that then perpetuated this idea of like “I’m sensitive to that, so I shouldn’t be having that” and then I would eliminate it because it was ‘healthy’, and then it was easy because it was also reducing calories in some regard. So I had a lot of GI issues.
I was always freezing cold. I would wear sweatshirts all the time. I was always really chilled. Hands and feet were always freezing.
Chris Sandel: And the no period, how long was that for?
Shannon: Oh yeah. My period stopped actually when I was playing college soccer. I remember that it stopped. What I think had happened, and why, probably, is because I had gained some weight and got to probably my max weight that I had been before pregnancy when I was recovering from my ACL. Then I lost [redacted] pounds to get back to where I had been. So I think that’s what maybe stopped my period. It was my junior year of college, so I didn’t have it for 20 years.
That was the other thing; that whole time, all the levels were just like low, low, low, low, low, and nobody ever talked about how detrimental that is to your health. Thank God I did have bone scans and bone density and my bones were fine, but I do know a lot of women who have an eating disorder end up with fractures and osteopenia, osteoporosis because of that lack of oestrogen. So I was very, very lucky in that regard.
But now the more I have learned about hormones, I’m like, oh my gosh, it’s no wonder I was so anxious. [laughs] I literally had absolutely nothing onboard. From a lab standpoint, one thing that I learned from you, too – it will be really interesting to see if this resets or not – is my cholesterol, and how when you’re not eating enough and your oestrogen is really low, then – and you probably would explain this way better, but your cholesterol can go up because your liver is not processing as well due to it needing to slow down the metabolism.
I remember that my cholesterol has been high since I was in my low twenties, and I always thought it was because both my parents have it. Which it could be a combination of both, that it’s partially genetic, partially the fact that I was not eating enough. But it’s just really interesting because it was not something until in this last year that I ever would’ve attributed to “Oh, it’s because I just wasn’t eating enough.”
Chris Sandel: For sure. This is kind of the difficult thing with lab tests. And I’ve said this on the podcast before; there’s times where someone’s in a really dire state and we look at the lab tests and everything looks fine, and then you have someone who’s in a similar situation and their labs are out of whack, they’re too high, they’re too low and all of these things. You can have a situation where someone’s labs look fine while they’re in their eating disorder and then they’re doing recovery and now we’re seeing much higher cholesterol levels or now we’re seeing changes in blood sugar or whatever.
So the eating disorder can easily look at that and say “Things have got ‘worse’ because of doing recovery” when that’s just not the case. So I think labs need to be viewed not just as a complete standalone, but in the context of everything else and understanding how different things can be impacting that.
Shannon: Right. The other thing I was thinking about from a lab standpoint is that when I did labs before I really started recovery, my cortisol was super high. Again, it’s not just about labs, but realising how much the stress of an eating disorder plays on your body and your mindset and everything.
And my sleep was horrible. I would wake up super early and just be ready to go, but I think my adrenaline was literally completely out of whack, so I was purely just running on adrenaline all the time. I was waking up early so I could make sure that I got two hours of working out in or whatever. But a lot of it was just the cortisol because my body was under so much stress all the time.
00:24:15
Chris Sandel: You said that you then heard some of my podcasts, you started to think “Okay, maybe this is an eating disorder, maybe this is what’s been going on.” At that point, was there apprehension about making changes? Or if there was, what were the thoughts or what were the fears that were coming up?
Shannon: When I first started hearing your podcasts, I had already started working with a doctor to try and look at my hormones and treat the things that could be treated. My thyroid was terrible. I think T3, or reverse T3, one of them, shows that your body is under significant stress, and it was absolutely terrible. So she started treating things like thyroid. Before I started working with you, actually, she had put me on a little bit of oestrogen and progesterone just to try to see where things went.
I also had started working with a nutritionist and increased my calorie intake to like [redacted] calories a day. I had been at like [redacted], but I was just working out way too much to be enough. And I had been in such an energy deficit I think for so long that it took a really long time to get that back.
So from the food standpoint, I was already there, so that part wasn’t the scary part for me. Listening to what you had to say, I was like, “I need this guy” because, one, I’d heard enough times where you talked about how you had to take a break from exercise, and I knew for me that that was one of my biggest problems, my exercise compulsion and the amount that I was exercising. And as much as I didn’t want to at all, I also was like, “This is the person that is going to tell me that I have to do this.” And if I don’t have someone to tell me that, I don’t think I ever would’ve done that.
So that was the thing where I was like, “I need this person.” But also, I loved how much you talked about that it’s not just the nutrition piece of it. It literally is not something that you can take medications and fix your thyroid and then all of a sudden, miraculously, your eating disorder is going to be gone. It’s the psychological piece of it that you do such an amazing job at addressing and tackling. Having the one-on-one sessions and hearing that you had the group options, that was really what led me to being like, “Yes, I need to work with this person.”
And even if I hadn’t had the nutritionist, you do all that also. I just didn’t know that beforehand. But I think for most people, the scary things of increasing calories and stopping exercise for whatever period of time that looks like or changing your exercise regimen – because even in the three months, I guess, before I had started working with you, I did change what I was doing with exercise, but I was still exercising like five days a week. It just was like not as much HIIT and cardio, and I was lifting, but I was still walking every day and doing all these steps.
So yeah, certainly taking that exercise break was really, I think, absolutely critical. And knowing that that was something that – I could tell from your podcast that was kind of a non-negotiable for everybody. [laughs] So I was like, “Okay, this is the guy for me.”
Chris Sandel: Nice. I will just add, it is somewhat of a non-negotiable, but not everyone starts there. I always want to be upfront with people about this stuff, like “Hey” – and it will also depend on someone’s history. For some people, it really makes sense and it is pretty imperative to start there because this is such a big component of someone’s eating disorder, which it was truly for you. Whereas for someone else, it might not be to the same degree.
And again, I still think it’s the place where I want someone to start, but if someone’s like, “We need to get there a little more slowly”, I’m also open to that. But in your case, it made absolute sense for that to be the first thing that we started with.
00:29:09
Do you remember the first couple of weeks or the first month or whatever? How did it feel?
Shannon: I think that’s one of the things I really appreciated about you, and I would say for sure, it really would depend on where people are at. Because some people, the food part and really being restrictive – whereas I didn’t feel like – my calorie count wasn’t so extreme where it might be with some people. Obviously eating disorders are this complete spectrum. There’s too much exercise or restrictive food rules or whatever, somewhere in between. I definitely had a lot of food rules in place.
But I also feel like you do such a good job of – I don’t know, it’s not like tricking you, but the way you present things and are like “Okay, so how do you feel?” – automatically, it’s like, “No, I know I need to do this.” Like the way you frame it or just present it, I guess, that makes really good sense of like, “This is the reason why we’re doing it.” But you made me feel like it was always a partnership and a joint decision, never like “You have to do this.” It was like, “Here’s the reason why I think it would be really helpful in your situation to completely cut out exercise for a while and what it’s going to do for you mentally and physically and how it’s going to heal.”
I was really nervous, and I know that you could probably see that. I was very hesitant. I think initially I just was like, “Okay, I’ll do this for – I’ll give it a couple weeks, see how it goes.” Could be because in my head, it felt really scary to do that when I had literally worked out every day for however long I could remember and would barely take days off, which to some people sounds ludicrous. It was just that mindset that I got into.
It was really hard, but I think having the one-on-one sessions and then being able to get on the group calls, having the board where I could just post and message and be like, “Here’s what’s going on, this is so hard” and there are so many people that were in the same boat – and then also, just knowing that when I was feeling anxious or scared or whatever, that I literally could just message you. That just in itself, to just be able to verbalise how I was feeling and knowing that then I was going to get a reply was this other level of just “Okay, this is going to be okay.”
But it was really hard, where all of a sudden I’m like, “I have two hours back in my day. What am I supposed to do with this?” I prioritised sleep because I’m a morning workout person, so I was like, “Okay, this is what I’m going to do”, knowing how important sleep is to overall health anyway.
But yeah, the further I got into it, obviously, the easier and easier it got. I know that initially it was like nothing, and then it was like “Okay, you could do a 10-minute walk.” So I would walk my kids to and from school and that was it. Eventually I was able to add in very light yoga.
But saying all that, one month after not doing anything, when I first started working with you, it was only like one month and then I got my period back for the first time in 20 years. So it was absolutely worth it.
Chris Sandel: Yeah. I went back and had a look at the details. I think it was a little longer than the one month; it was about six weeks. But yeah, it was a fairly short amount of time in the whole scheme of things.
And I would add that you had done a good change in terms of your eating for those handful of months before we got started together. That had continued on while we started together. I think I maybe even increased that when we started together. So yeah, there was a good amount of change that had occurred in a fairly short amount of time.
And I would also add, you were on the lower end of things coming back in terms of it’s I would say quicker than the average person for that to occur, especially given that this had gone on for 20 years.
Shannon: Right.
Chris Sandel: I’m saying this as well because I think for anyone listening, we all have inherent strengths and weaknesses. In recovery, different people have different things improve at different paces. Just because Shannon got her period back in a fairly short amount of time, I didn’t instantly think “Oh, she’s good.” It was just like, for whatever reason, her body is now starting to prioritise these hormones that have allowed her to get her period. I in no way thought we were nearing the end because everything was done; it was just like that was one symptom that had improved and there were still lots of other things for us to work on.
Shannon: Yeah, for sure.
00:34:51
Chris Sandel: So what are some of the other physical changes you noticed? I know you’ve mentioned some of them when I was asking earlier about what had happened or occurred with the eating disorder, but what were some of the other physical changes you started to notice?
Shannon: Definitely energy, where I realised I had always been chronically tired all the time, and I just didn’t realise it. I was sleeping better. I had a lot more energy.
Gradually, over the period of time – because I think part of it, too, I was so worried when I started just eating whatever, meaning that nothing was off limits, that I would have gut issues or something because I was eating way more carbohydrates or more gluten or more dairy. And I didn’t have all those. In fact, my gut issues got a lot better as I was doing the refeeding process, I guess.
My hairdresser, over a course of months, was like, “Oh my gosh, your hair is so much thicker.” She could tell, which was really cool because – I mean, unless your hair is like falling out in clumps or something, it’s not always super easy to tell, but she was like, “No, it’s so much healthier.”
And then the biggest thing of all I think is just my mood and my ability to respond to stressful situations and my anxiety that month to month to month just got better and better.
And just my sense of calm. We talk about a scale of like “Where are you at?” Zero, you’re like the most Zen person on the planet or something, and 10 is the extreme anxiety. I feel like I was constantly living at like a 7 or an 8, and so any little thing – my kids throw a tantrum and all of a sudden my lid is flipped because I just have no reserve. Whereas now I feel like I’m down at that 1. I don’t think anyone’s probably really at zero, ever. But just where I’m starting from is so much lower. Family members will be like, “You just seem more chill and relaxed and overall happier.” I think I’m a more patient person.
All those things that you never think about will be the positives of recovery. I think for a lot of people it’s like, “Oh, getting my period back.” Which yes, huge. I’m a nurse practitioner and a lot of women are not taught how critically important it is to be ovulating every single month and how detrimental it can be to your body of not getting those hormones. I was a nurse practitioner and I didn’t even put that together, or maybe it was just being ignorant or whatever, in denial.
But it really is the way that the eating disorder can impact your relationships and your ability to respond to life, that once that was healed a lot, the eating disorder, everything else just became easier and better and you’re just so much more adaptable. So the mental/psychological piece was probably the best outcome of all.
00:38:52
Chris Sandel: I know there was other bits that we worked on connected to the mental/emotional pieces and the psychological stuff. I just wonder, how important do you feel like stopping the exercise and changing your eating was to allow us to do that other stuff?
Shannon: I think that it was really important to stop just so that my body could heal and actually get all those calories, but then also have the focus be on those mental pieces of it. I love how you do it because you have these little assignments, but they’re very easily doable. Every single one of them, they were really ‘aha’ moments.
For example, doing the food rules thing, where I was like, “I don’t have that many” and then all of a sudden I’m like, “Oh my gosh, I have so many food rules in place.” [laughs] I had no idea. And yeah, even thinking about how you do respond to stress or various things.
I think having enough calories and not exercising too much allowed my body to actually process and do those things at the ultimate capacity, whereas when – like, you think about a car, and when you’re on empty, there’s no way you can put the pedal to the metal and race well, for example.
So I just think by actually fuelling yourself and cutting back the exercise, it allowed me to do that work to the best of my ability, I think.
Chris Sandel: What other areas outside of food and exercise can you remember that we were working on? I know you mentioned a couple there, but is there anything else that stands out?
Shannon: A lot of learning about the polyvagal theory and ways to reduce stress and just thinking about the various ways to do that. Also I think part of it is like finding areas of joy outside of exercise or wherever you found it, and really dialling into that. So making lists of the things that bring you joy or bring you peace.
I think it was just all the elements of the various exercises that you have people go through. Again, the group sessions were so helpful, and having the prompts where we would all go through and share our thoughts on various things, but then having that ability to see you’re not alone in this was really huge.
And then I think, too, from a food standpoint, you do such a good job of integrating so many of the intuitive eating principles without it being like “Okay, we’re going to go step by step by step in doing this”, but it’s all weaved in where then at the end of it, I’m like, “Oh my gosh, we literally went through all of that.” But just the integration of the psychological piece with the exercise piece, with the nutrition piece. You did such a great job, where I’m like, “Can you give me some lunch ideas?” or “Can you give me this?”
I think really critical, too, is every week that we met, just setting the goals. They were always very realistic goals that were achievable and made it feel so possible. It wasn’t ever like, if you’re eating [redacted] calories a day, you wouldn’t start at [redacted] a day. It was these very realistic steps. It just made me feel like I could do it, and you were so supportive of making me feel that way that it was easy then – especially with having the goals. It was very specific and objective things that I’m like, “Okay, I can accomplish this.” And that made it very possible.
Chris Sandel: Thank you for saying that. And I would just add, part of what may have made it feel more realistic and achievable and all those things was also your openness and your willingness to do this.
You started with part of the reason you wanted to work with me was because you knew you needed to stop exercise and have someone to tell you to do that and support you to do that. For a lot of people, it’s like “I don’t feel like I can even do that.” That, in some people’s minds, feels completely unrealistic. So I think a big part of it was also you saying “I’m going to do this thing. I’m going to take the action.”
And part of the reason why I’m having you on and we’re chatting about this is because you did take the action and you did do it consistently, and you’ve got the results that you got because of that. It’s not a surprise that things have worked out the way they have.
And look, some people’s recoveries are faster and slower, and we don’t have ultimate control over lots of those variables, and there are things that you do have more control over, and those are the things that you’re like, “Cool, I’m going to do this. Yes, it’s scary, but I’m still going to take action and run the experiment, and let’s see what happens over these next two weeks.”
Shannon: Yeah. Thank you. I actually always loved – because that was one thing you would always say, “Let’s run the experiment, let’s see what happens.” Like, “Okay, you feel like it’s scary to not exercise. Let’s just take it one day at a time. Tomorrow, you’re going to do this.” That, again, always just made it feel very possible.
00:45:24
Chris Sandel: What were some of the hardest parts of recovery? Were there setbacks or times where it felt like you were either going backwards or “This isn’t going to work” or “This is really challenging”? And if so, how did you respond in those moments?
Shannon: I think definitely one of the hardest parts is just your body’s going to change. That is really hard for probably everybody. So going through the various stages of that – and again, just having the support and the ability in the days where I was so frustrated or tearful or whatever, where I’m messaging you or I was posting in the group feed of like “Here’s the situation” or why I’m stressed out.
But also, I think throughout all the exercises and everything, you do a really good job, in the group conversations, of setting the expectations or scenarios and situations, so it’s almost like you know what will come through that process. So having an idea of that, of “Okay, you’re going to probably have times where all of a sudden you’re in a bikini, and how are you going to respond to that?”
But I think it was all the actions that then, based on what was going on or how I was processing things, like, “Okay, let’s work on this. Let’s work on taking more pictures so that you’re looking at yourself more.” Just really that direct action to what was hard and tackling that from week to week certainly made it a lot easier.
And just having your support and knowing that you’re the expert in this and that you’ve seen a lot of people through this and that the only way to the other side is just to go right through the hard stuff.
But yeah, I think the hardest thing – I mean, not the hardest thing, but one of the hardest things was – we talked about this a lot – people commenting on my body. I wasn’t really prepared for that, I think.
Chris Sandel: I mean, I think you can be prepared in terms of “I’ve heard this could happen” or “My eating disorder is telling me this may happen”, but there’s a difference between understanding it intellectually and then having that experience. And you had an experience where, in a fairly short amount of time, it happened again and again and again. So talk a little more about that and how you were able to get through that.
00:48:30
Shannon: Yeah, in a pretty short period of time – I don’t remember exactly, but I want to say it was a month or something – I had like three or four different people, completely different people, ask me if I was pregnant. One was just an acquaintance I hadn’t seen in a while, and I first was just shocked and was like, “No, I’m not.”
And then I had someone else who was like, “So how far along are you? Six months?” I just kept walking, and I started bawling, because here I’m like, I’m trying so hard to be the healthiest version of myself. And I think too because – I didn’t talk about this at all, but I have five children, and all of them are from IVF. Infertility was such a part of my journey that even to get pregnant was so hard that then to be asked if I was pregnant when I was not and just – in my head, and I shouldn’t think this, but it just seems like people are saying, “Oh wow, you’re really large” or “You’ve gained a ton of weight.” Which I had. But it was just really hard to hear.
I just think in general, you should never comment about other people’s bodies, no matter what. But especially women. So the first two, I think I was like, “No, I’m not.” I just didn’t know what to say. I was so shocked.
So then after conversations with you and the group, even, I feel like the subsequent times – because then it happened again – I was very much more direct of like “No, I’m actually recovering from an eating disorder.” That was the best thing I could’ve done, I think, because the people were just like “Oh crap, I was completely in the wrong.” More than anything, I just wanted them to think about you can’t just say this to people. You have no idea what they’re going through.
Same goes for when people are commenting on weight loss. You don’t know if they have cancer or they just loss a family member, so they’re so depressed that they’re not eating. Either end of the spectrum, you’re commenting on people’s bodies and you have no idea what they’re going through in their life.
So that was really hard, not just for someone who’s going through eating disorder recovery but literally any woman who’s ever been asked if she’s pregnant when she’s not feels so offended and hurt and just like – then it makes you question, “Am I doing the right thing? Am I healthy if all these people are recognising that I’m gaining weight? What are they thinking about that? What are they thinking about me?”
So every time, those comments, it would make you second guess a little bit what you were doing. But it was super helpful just to have the support of you and the group and have people be like, “Dude, that sucks. I’ve been there and I’ve experienced that, and here’s how…” because the first few times I feel like I didn’t respond well because I was so shocked, I didn’t know what to say. So being able to talk that through with you, with the group, and then have these tools in my back pocket for the next time.
But I also think it just depends where you’re at in your recovery, because now I think if someone said it, I’d kind of be like “Screw you.” [laughs] “You’re a jerk. You have no right to talk about my body like that.” But I think it’s because I’m in such a different mental space, and my body is fuelled, so I’m firing on all cylinders. Whereas when you’re still working your way back – and I don’t think anybody is ever fully recovered if you’ve had an eating disorder, but when you’re still in that early process of it, it is a lot harder to be able to respond in a way that you might later, when you’re much more recovered.
Chris Sandel: Sure. I would say that I don’t want anyone to have to receive these kinds of comments, and in some ways, I also feel like it strengthens your recovery. Because you were able to go through these really difficult moments and were able to then continue with the eating, continue not exercising, doing the things that you needed to in recovery. And noticing that as they went on, your ability to handle them, your ability to respond improved, so you got to see, “I have more capacity to then deal with this thing that is really challenging.”
Shannon: Yeah, I agree. I think experiencing those and being able to be like, it didn’t change my behaviour with my eating or exercise, and I think that was huge. But that was also because I had you to lean on, to just be like, “Nope, you’re still doing the right things. This is important.” And knowing that that was the way that was going to get me through it, just to keep moving forward with my goals and what I was doing.
00:54:27
Chris Sandel: I want to come back to something you said a moment ago, where you said, “I don’t think anyone who has had an eating disorder fully recovers.” I just want you to clarify what you mean by that, because I have my beliefs on this, so I just want to hear your thoughts.
Shannon: I think I just mean that it’s always going to be something that I’m working on. I don’t know. I think that because I’ve had that history, I’m always going to have to double check myself sometimes. Like if I’m leaning toward a certain behaviour where I have to be like, “No, you can’t go there.” I don’t know. And maybe the further I get away from it, then I won’t feel that way at all.
Because I do feel like in tons of ways, I’m recovered. But I think that there will always be things I’m just extra cautious about or want to be sure that I’m not going back in a bad direction with certain things.
And I think it’s little things. Like we had a conversation where I wanted a salad one day for lunch, but then I was like, “Is that an eating disorder behaviour?” and you were like, “No, it’s okay to have the salad if that’s truly what you want and you’re not getting it because it’s the lowest calorie thing on the menu, you truly want it.” It’s little things like that where I question – yeah, I don’t know if that makes sense.
But yeah, I probably shouldn’t have said it in that way. I do feel like in so many ways, I’m recovered or getting closer and closer to fully recovered from all the standpoints. My relationship with food is night and day different. Same with my relationship with exercise. Like I went on vacation, and if I worked out, great. If I didn’t, that was okay, too, or if I just want to walk. Which never would’ve happened before. I eat what I want to eat now, and if things sound good, I eat them, and if I want dessert at night, I have it.
I think I just meant that the work never stops, I guess. Like you can’t ever stop working on your mental health and the things that are going to keep the stress levels down and all the things we worked on. You can’t just be like, “Okay, I did that and I never have to do it again or go back to those tools.”
Chris Sandel: For sure. I just picked up on it because I’m always conscious of what people can hear when they hear that. And look, the reality is, from my perspective, we’re still working together, you’re still in recovery, and there’s still things that you’re working on with this.
And you are right in that you don’t lose certain tendencies. You have the genetic predisposition; you going on a diet is probably not a good idea. I mean, I wouldn’t recommend it for anyone, but the risk factor for you is much higher than the average person. So yes, there are lots of things that, given your history, I would say not worth the downside if this goes awry.
And I do believe that people get to a point where “Even though I’ve had this as my history, even though I have these tendencies, I’m living my life as if I don’t have an eating disorder. I’m eating very freely, I’m able to exercise how I want to exercise, I’m able to rest in the way that I want to, I can do all my hobbies.” The eating disorder is not in your life anymore. It could come back if you start doing the things that bring that back, but for all intents and purposes, it’s not having an impact on you. And that tends to be how I think about full recovery.
Shannon: I totally agree. And I remember actually I think some of your podcasts where you talk about “full recovery is…” And it is that, like not constantly thinking about food, not exercising for the sake of burning calories, having healthy relationships with your family members, not being anxious. All the things that come as a result of recovery. Yeah, I agree. So I shouldn’t have said it the way that I said it. [laughs]
Chris Sandel: That’s okay. Because also, you don’t have to turn into a mini-me. You can hold your own opinions and all of that. That’s why I wanted to just ask more about it. The thing is, I would love to hear how you think about this in 18 months’ time, 5 years’ time, etc., as you have a loner and longer amount of time under your belt where “this is just not having an impact on my life anymore.” Whereas at this stage, yeah, there are still bits that are in fairly recent memory.
Shannon: Yeah, that totally makes sense.
00:59:59
Chris Sandel: We talked a lot there in terms of people making comments on your body and your body changing and all of that. How is your relationship with your body these days?
Shannon: Really good. And I think a lot of it, again, is all the tools and stuff you had me work on specific to that. I think that’s what’s so great about your programme. It’s not cookie-cutter. Literally everybody is going to have different things that they’re going to have to work on at different periods of time, whether that’s your relationship with food and the food rules that you have to break down or trying new foods, to the exercise and going back to the things that you used to love as a kid, versus the things you were doing now because it burns the highest calories.
But yeah, some of the body image stuff that we worked on, like taking the photos or just various things. Even little tips of like before you have to go in public in a swimsuit, maybe trying that swimsuit on. Even just the recommendation to get clothes that actually fit you, and just get rid of the old clothes, was huge. Because your body is 100% going to change. I mean, bodies change all the time, regardless of whether or not you’re recovering from an eating disorder, and finding clothes that you fit, that fit well and you feel good and confident in.
So I think it was just a gradual over time, but working through those body image specific things. Whereas now I’m at a place where I’m grateful for my body and I feel like I can lift heavy weights and that makes me happy. Or my daughter, she’s 11 and she has influenza A, and the other night she was like, “Can you carry me to bed?” I’m going to start crying. I could pick her up and carry her up, and it’s like, that’s the kind of things that matter, that my body can do. Not how thin it is.
I think for so long – and society likes to tell us, or has historically, I guess, that thin is healthy and thin is better. So many women strive for thinness and think that that is what they need to be or who they should be. And it’s so much work – so much work – to try to stay in that spot.
When you finally just let your body do its thing and eat in the way that is more intuitive and what your body is telling you sounds good and tastes good and actually paying attention to those things, and you let your body go to the place it’s supposed to be, it’s so freeing. But then you also look at your body a different way.
One of the things I think that actually has really helped me is – I think I told you this at one point; I don’t remember if it was after – there was a couple times when I got asked if I was pregnant that I was telling my husband about it, so my kids heard or something, and they were like, “That’s so rude. Why would anybody say that? You don’t look pregnant, Mom” or whatever. But my daughter, the same one that I carried the other night, put a little sticky note up on my vanity mirror in my bathroom that is just like, “You’re beautiful for you. It doesn’t matter what anybody else thinks. You’re beautiful in your own way” or something. I still have it up there. Even when the sticky note starts to fall, I re-tape it up.
It’s things like that that help so much, like little affirmations or things that will help you and remind you, because it is easy to let other people get into your head or various things.
But now I think I look at my body as I’m so thankful for all the things it allows me to do and has allowed me to do, like have five babies and be in a body that can work and run and keep up with my kids and carry my children who are getting bigger and bigger, and just find gratitude in that and its ability to be functioning.
Also, I hold so much gratitude for the ability to have recovered my period and honestly be the healthiest I probably have been in two decades.
01:05:00
Chris Sandel: Nice. You’ve mentioned intuitive eating a couple of times, and I just want to mention in case people misinterpret this, this is not where we started with Shannon. There was a lot of structure. There was meal plans. There was “These are the things to go through based on you saying ‘Hey, can you give me suggestions?’”, etc. It’s not that that was there we started; that was where we were able to get to because of all the changes.
I’m just, again, conscious of what people hear with these sort of things, and that’s actually not how we started, if that’s what anyone’s thinking.
Shannon: Yes, 100%. It was very, very structured in the start, which was exactly what I needed, like “Here’s your calorie goal per meal, per snack. Here’s great snack ideas.” Which was really helpful, and it took a really long time to – like, here we are over a year later. I feel like it was just within the last few months, actually, that it really turned the corner in that way, because so much of it in the start is just making sure you’re getting enough calories and then working on the various things of eating the things that used to scare you or you completely avoided and trying new things and just adequately fuelling.
Chris Sandel: For sure. I would love for you to share about you bringing exercise back in, because I think this is something that often people hear the part of the podcast that you heard, like “Hey, people need to take a break”, but then there’s the “How do I bring it back in?”
And whatever Shannon’s going to share here and we’re going to talk about, this is what worked for her. This isn’t that this is the way it works for everyone, but it’s just this is what worked for her and how we did it with her. So this can just give you a bit of an idea.
As a bit of context, I think it was around 5 months total that you took off, and it was after the point that you had had three periods, consistent periods, that I was like, “Okay, I’m open to you starting to bring some things in, and let’s start to see what happens when you do that.” So take it from here. What did the process then look like from your end?
Shannon: From what I recall, it was like “Okay, you can do one workout a week to start.” Then we gradually moved up to two days a week. So much of it is we didn’t want it to impact my cycle, because I know that that is honestly one of the first things that will go, because your body’s like, “I don’t need to be making babies. I’m going to just shut down.” So just seeing how my body responded to the increase.
It was a very, very gradual process. And then even two months in, where I had gone up to whatever it was – say it was three or four days a week – pulling back again to be like, “From a psychological standpoint, are you still able to cut back and not this constant ramp-up thing, and how you do with that.” So, super gradual to start, and just building up slowly.
But then also doing those check-ins. I would always laugh and be like, “You know I don’t really want to do that, but I will.” [laughs] But I always knew it was good. I had got up to the point, again, where I was taking one day off a week and you’re like, “Let’s do two for the next few weeks.” Again, the exercise piece was the thing I needed to break the most, or at least repair the most, as far as my relationship with it. So to have those constant like “All right, let’s do a little experiment again with this and get to a better place of balance.”
Because for me, I had had in my head that that was my standard and my norm, whereas for other people, they’d be like, “Dude, I don’t want to work out. I’ll work out three days a week and that’s golden.” So I had this misconception of what I needed to be doing.
So yeah, it was a very slow and gradual process. Mostly stuck with strength training and nothing that was too high intensity. And then, again, just making sure the calorie piece of it was in place and nothing was changing there. And actually adding a little bit extra sometimes, too, to just make sure that I was covering for the fact that I was exercising.
Chris Sandel: Okay. Let me share or add in the bits that I remember that I think would add some extra context. Yes, we definitely increased slowly. It was like, “Okay, you can do it once a week” and then you did that for a handful of weeks and I was like, “Take a week off and then we’ll come back to it.” So every time we would move up, we would also be baking in “You’re having a week off, you’re having two weeks.” And some of those were natural, like “Oh, it’s fine, we’re going on holiday anyway”, and other times it’s like, “Yeah, I know you’re at home and this is the time you would normally do it, but we’re still taking that time off” to really show that there was this psychological flexibility with this.
And we started with things that felt less eating disorder, that felt more like, “No, I truly believe this is things that I really love doing and there wasn’t the same connection with my eating disorder.” And then later on, we’re bringing things back in where “This does feel like it could be more connected.” And again, just seeing what we notice.
The thing I also really want to add with this is that from working with Shannon for a long time, I was able to tell that her enjoyment of exercise was there long before the eating disorder was involved. This was how her life had looked for as long as she could remember. So yes, it had turned into this thing that was very unhealthy, was very compulsive, all of those things, and there was this genuine enjoyment there.
And I don’t think that that is the case for everyone. There are lots of people where exercise came in purely as part of someone’s eating disorder. And that doesn’t mean that someone can’t develop this joy of exercise later in life; it can. But I think there can be a difference between “This thing has purely always been about weight loss or connected to giving myself permission to eat” or all those different things versus for someone like Shannon. She’d had 20+ years where none of those things had actually been part of it.
So in some ways, this is why we were able to bring things in more quickly, how things were able to increase more quickly than other people. But again, we were constantly having these check-ins to make sure that nothing was going on with her period, nothing was going on in terms of other symptoms. Shannon had lots of different blood tests so we could make sure things were not being impacted upon.
And at any point when we did feel, or I was like “I’m getting a little worried about this” or the period is a little bit later, Shannon was open to saying, “Okay, cool, I will do this thing to prove that I’m still in the driver’s seat and to prove that I want to do this, but I also want to do it in the healthiest possible way, and I don’t want this to turn into what it was before.”
I’m saying all this because yes, Shannon’s return to all this has been, again, quicker than the average person, and even though that’s happened, we’ve still had lots of checks and balances all along the way to make sure that this is turning into something very different to how it was.
Shannon: Yeah, for sure. I think what helped a lot is that I was tracking my cycle. I know that there’s a lot of people out there that don’t actually do that, and I would definitely recommend that because that was always the thing that – I’m like, “Ooh, my ovulation is delayed” and I would totally freak out, and then I would question, “Is it because…?” And you’d be like, “No, you’re doing the same thing you were doing. It’s okay.” Or “Yeah, you did add in cycling, so let’s take a step back.”
But that was such a helpful tool or another piece of evidence to really evaluate how it was impacting my body.
Chris Sandel: Yeah. For sure. So what haven’t I asked that you think it would be useful to go through?
Shannon: Oh gosh, I don’t know. The only thing I’ll say is I was saying to my husband this morning – I was like, “I’m going to be on the podcast today, and honestly, Chris completely changed my life.” He’s like, “Well, you have to say that.” I was like, “No, I will, I will say that.” [laughs]
You’re not going to recover from an eating disorder by – I don’t think so – only working with a nutritionist or only going to a doctor who might put you on hormones, and yeah, your blood levels might look good, but the actual eating disorder and the psychological piece is not going to be resolved.
I think that is what is so magical about you and what your programme offers people. It addresses all the things. The emotional aspects of it, the relationships you have with other people and with your own body, the mental health pieces of it, the psychological – how stress is impacting your body. And then, of course, the eating and the exercise and then everything that comes with that.
Yeah, I think it’s easy for people to think that it’s literally just like, “Okay, if I eat enough calories, then I’ll be fine.” But I did that. I had periods of time where I would cut back on exercise somewhat, but I didn’t fix the eating piece, or I would eat more calories but then I was just exercising more. And until you work on all the things from a mental and psychological standpoint, nothing else is going to change.
So I just want to say thank you, because I really think you completely changed my life, and life for my family and my kids.
Chris Sandel: That’s lovely to hear. You are very, very welcome. As I said earlier, you are someone who took action and were following through, and really, that’s the thing that makes the difference. It’s like, do you run the experiments to figure out what actually happens? And we can then make decisions based on that and go from there.
01:16:53
I guess the final thing I would ask is, imagine someone is listening today; they’ve resonated with what you’ve shared and with your story. Maybe they’re considering getting help, but also, there’s this feeling of “I’m too unwell, this has gone on for too long, I’m too complicated”, whatever other reasons the eating disorder could be bringing up, or the anxiety could be bringing up. What would you want that person to know or hear?
Shannon: I think that if anything, knowing that I dealt with this for like 20 years and have come out on the other side of it should be really encouraging that it’s literally never too late. I think for me, I looked at it like – I was just about to turn 40 when I decided that I wanted to do something. Again, it’s never too late.
I think it’s easy to think “I don’t have the time to do that, it’s a financial investment.” But you can’t afford not to. I think that it will honestly be the best decision you could ever make for yourself, and it is very scary to think what you have to go through to get on the other side of that, but you will be your best, healthiest, happiest self if you can just allow yourself to go through that.
For me, too, it was for my husband and for my kids, just being the example that I want to be for them and modelling healthy relationship with exercise and food is so hugely important. Just finding your ‘why’ and holding on to that.
But yeah, I think it’s never too late. Anyone is capable of recovery, and you really cannot afford not to do it.
Chris Sandel: Thank you for coming on and for sharing your story. I really hope that it helps others to hear what you’ve been through and where you are now.
Shannon: Thank you so much for having me.
Chris Sandel: You’re very welcome.
So that was my conversation with Shannon. I hope that you were able to get a lot out of it, you were able to resonate with some of it, you were able to see “This is what recovery can look like if I make these changes.” No-one’s recovery is exactly the same, so it’s not that every client I work with is just a carbon copy of Shannon, but hopefully an episode like this gives you a bit of an idea of what recovery can look like, what other things I will often work on with people, and what that progression can look like.
So if you are wanting to get help with your eating disorder and you want to reach a place of full recovery, as I mentioned at the top, I’m currently taking on clients. You can send an email to info@seven-health.com or you can send a message on Instagram @sevenhealthcompany and just put ‘coaching’ or ‘support’ in the subject line or in the message and I can get the details over to you.
So that is it for this week’s episode. Until next time, I will see you soon!
Thanks so much for joining this week. Have some feedback you’d like to share? Leave a note in the comment section below!
If you enjoyed this episode, please share it using the social media buttons you see on this page.
Also, please leave an honest review for The Real Health Radio Podcast on Apple Podcasts! Ratings and reviews are extremely helpful and greatly appreciated! They do matter in the rankings of the show, and we read each and every one of them.
Policies
Social
Copyright © 2009 – 2025
seven-health.com · All Rights Reserved.
Share
Facebook
Twitter