Today, Chris chats with Jennifer Rollin about the ways in which coronavirus can be uniquely challenging for those in eating disorder recovery, along with practical tips and strategies for coping.
Jennifer Rollin is a therapist and founder of The Eating Disorder Center in Rockville, Maryland, who specializes in working with adolescents and adults with eating disorders including, anorexia, bulimia, and binge eating disorder, body image issues, anxiety, and depression.
Jennifer has experience working in a variety of settings including, an outpatient mental health clinic, residential programs for adolescents, and a sexual assault crisis hotline. She serves as the chairwoman of Project Heal’s national network of eating disorder treatment providers. Jennifer has been named as one of the top eating disorder experts in the world by Balance Eating Disorder Treatment Center.
Jennifer has a certificate in Enhanced Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for Eating Disorders. She also has a certificate in Dialectical Behavior Therapy. She is a Certified Intuitive Eating Counselor. She is on the Junior Board of Directors for The National Eating Disorders Association. She was invited to serve on the conference committee for The National Eating Disorders Association’s 2018 Conference.
Jennifer has been interviewed speaking about eating disorders on television including on Fox, ABC, PBS, and NBC. She gives talks about eating disorders at national eating disorder conferences, therapy centers, and colleges.
She is an expert writer for The Huffington Post and Psychology Today. Her professional blog was named one of the top eating disorder blogs in the world.
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Chris Sandel: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Real Health Radio. I’m your host, Chris Sandel. This is another bonus episode connected to the coronavirus pandemic. I released a solo episode about this about a month ago where I gave my initial thoughts on the situation, and it’s simply amazing how much has changed in such a short amount of time.
Only a couple of days after that original podcast on coronavirus went out, the UK went into lockdown. It started on the 23rd of March, and I’m recording the intro for this on the 20th of April, so we’ve been in lockdown just shy of a month now.
We’ve been directed by the government to only leave the house for very limited purposes, like – and I’m going to quote here from the government website – “Shopping for basic necessities (for example, food and medicine), which must be as infrequent as possible; one form of exercise a day (for example, a run, walk, or cycle), alone or with members of your household; any medical need, including to donate blood, avoid or escape risk of injury or harm, or to provide care or to help a vulnerable person; traveling for work purposes, but only where you cannot work from home.”
With all of these moments of exiting the house, you must stay 2 meters (or 6 feet) away from people at all times and wash your hands as soon as you get home.
Underneath this list of generic reasons you can leave the house, there’s also a statement related to animals, saying that you can walk your dog or look after your house, provided that it is alone or with members of your household.
If ever there was a time I’m grateful for living in the countryside, it’s now. We live in an area of low population density and we have a garden. Ali has horses, which we’re allowed to visit, and we have a dog, Roxy, that needs walking.
So in many ways our life hasn’t changed much from the norm, but in lots of ways it really has changed, and changed pretty massively. We can’t see family and friends in person. Ramsay, my son, isn’t able to go to any groups or go to swimming or see his nanny, who has been in his life since he was 4 months old, and he doesn’t understand why, despite us trying our best to explain things to him. He’s 2-½ years old.
Then there’s the financial instability, and then we’re constantly seeing the death toll that is happening in the UK and other places around the world. So, while we can have moments of being in our little bubble, feeling like things are normal, it doesn’t take much to break through that mirage and be back in the stark reality of the situation.
I’ve been hearing from lots of people online and from clients and from past clients about how this situation is affecting their thoughts around food and exercise, and even people who are in a much better place and have been there for a really long time, their issues to them had felt like a distant memory, and this pandemic and the anxiety it has caused has allowed them to get back into energy debt and their obsessive thoughts and thoughts of restriction, and an unhealthy compulsion to exercise has returned.
I wrote a blog piece in February time entitled “The Unintentional Relapse,” and it basically detailed what I’m seeing with many people now: that an overwhelming life led to either an unintentional downturn in eating or an uptick in exercise. When this lasts long enough and they go over some threshold, people find that the eating disorder behaviors start to come back.
If this is you, I want to say that this is common at the moment, but this doesn’t make it any less serious. As I talked about in the article, it’s crucial to be catching this as early as possible, because the longer it goes on, the harder it becomes to dig yourself back out. So please do whatever you can do prioritize recovery and changing the current trajectory.
As part of this week’s podcast, I wanted to cover certain ideas around this and look at some of the concerns that people were having and how to deal with this. To help me do this, I invited back on the show past guest Jennifer Rollin. I’d seen Jennifer posting lots of helpful articles and thoughts in her Facebook page and on Instagram, and I thought she’d be great to have a conversation with about this.
As part of this episode, we cover some of the most common struggles that we’ve been seeing for those in recovery and some suggestions to be minimizing or mediating these. We touch on quite a few different areas and lots of different resources that are then going to be linked into the show notes.
I should mention that this was recorded right at the end of March time, but with lots going on around here, this is the earliest that we’ve been able to get the episode out. Some of my early questions to Jennifer about her choice to decide to focus on coronavirus now just feel redundant because it’s now engulfed us in a way that it’s hard to think about anything else. But when we recorded this, it was still early on, and Jennifer was one of the first people I saw talking about this, at least in the health field I live in with regards to recovery and eating disorders.
Despite these early questions, the rest of this is still very relevant, and the struggles that we talk about are still the same struggles; they’ve just had longer to fester. So I guess if I talked to Jennifer today, we’d mostly cover the same ground.
Seven Health is currently taking on clients at the moment. If you’re struggling with any of the issues that Jennifer and I cover as part of this episode, then please get in contact. You can head over to seven-health.com/help for more details on booking in for a free initial chat and how we work with clients.
Let’s get on with the show. Here is my coronavirus-focused conversation with Jennifer Rollin.
Hey, Jennifer. Welcome back to the show. You are the first guest ever to appear on the show three times, so it’s a privilege to have you back.
Jennifer Rollin: Thank you. I’m really happy to be back and talking about an important topic.
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Chris Sandel: Yeah. The general theme for this episode is going to be the coronavirus and coping with the many challenges that are arising because of it. Given your background and the clients you work with, this will probably largely focus on eating disorder recovery during the pandemic, but I’m happy to go wherever the conversation takes us.
Just as a starting point, when did you first start posting about coronavirus on social media, and how did you make the decision to start talking about it?
Jennifer Rollin: That’s a good question. Looking at my Instagram now, it looks like March 14th, so not that long ago, I started posting about it. Actually, that’s untrue; it was sooner than that. It was March 12th. The reason why – when things had first started and we weren’t sure how serious it was going to be, I remember I polled my audience and I asked people, “Should I focus on recovery content as usual? Should I focus on coronavirus and recovery?”
I got a mix of answers, but a lot of people were saying to focus on coronavirus and recovery, and I realized that while talking about all the recovery topics is still useful and helpful, we’re in an unprecedented time. We’re in a pandemic. I can’t just ignore what’s going on in the world and continue with posting as usual when there’s all these new challenges and triggers and things that are coming up for people. It just seemed like a no-brainer after things started getting worse.
Chris Sandel: I think it might’ve even been earlier than that, but you posted something about the toilet paper and what was going on in Australia and making the connection between that’s what it’s like with toilet paper; this is what it’s like with people’s mentality around food when restriction is impending. That was the first thing that alerted me to you starting to talk about it, and then just seeing you were posting more and more about it.
Were you seeing it with clients? Were clients bringing it up to you more, or you were just seeing it and you knew that this was going to be a thing?
Jennifer Rollin: I think originally I started posting because I had a feeling it was going to be a thing. My clients at that time were pretty blasé about it. They were saying, “I don’t think it’s going to be that serious. I don’t think it’s something we need to worry about.” So I wasn’t seeing it as much yet with clients, but I was noticing that hoarding mentality around toilet paper being scarce, and because of that, people wanted it more even though there’s no reason that we would need more toilet paper right now. So that happened.
Then as of I would say this week/last week is when I started noticing my clients starting to struggle more with everything going on in the world.
Chris Sandel: And it does feel like in the last couple of weeks, things have really ramped up. We’re recording this on the 25th of March, but yeah, it’s been these last couple of weeks that this is now affecting so many more places and people than originally, when it was more in China and then in Italy. Then it’s just started to go everywhere.
Jennifer Rollin: Absolutely.
00:09:50
Chris Sandel: I want to start with maybe just generalizing and talking about some of the struggles or additional challenges that you’ve been either seeing online or seeing in person with your clients that are making this situation more difficult than recovery would normally be. So what are some of the additional challenges?
Jennifer Rollin: I think this is the perfect storm for an eating disorder to get worse or to get louder. That doesn’t mean it has to happen right now, but there’s a lot of triggering things going on in the environment.
The one big thing that clients are talking about is on some of these social media platforms – Facebook, Instagram, TikTok – people are getting very into this “workout of the day” thing. Everyone’s bored and at home, so there’s a lot more talk about exercise and a lot of morality around that, like you should handle this quarantine in a “healthy” way by exercising all the time. It’s a diet culture message. So I think that’s really hard for people.
And then coupled with the fact that around here, and I think around the world, gyms have closed. So for many people who struggle with compulsive exercise as part of their eating disorder, that I think is really difficult.
I want to differentiate: if you’re somebody who truly enjoys a gym class with friends or whatever and you’re bummed about not being able to go, that doesn’t mean that you have a problem. But if the feeling goes beyond a little bit disappointed, then it’s a good time to reevaluate your relationship to movement.
Chris Sandel: Definitely. I have seen so many more trainers – and I’ve got to look at also the economics of this. Trainers have lost their whole income source because their gyms have closed, so they’re now trying to work out, “How do I do this?” So they’re all going online.
But yeah, there is, as you say, a lot of the moralizing around that, and a lot of it then connected in terms of talking about dieting, talking about weight gain and potential weight gain as part of the quarantine, and really stoking those fears. It’s not exercise for an enjoyable, de-stressing way; it comes with all of this additional baggage.
Jennifer Rollin: Absolutely. I think you raise a good point that diet culture and fitness culture, at the end of the day, there is a profit to be made off of that. I have compassion and empathy for trainers who have lost their jobs, who are desperate to get people in the door and who are still steeped in that diet culture mindset. But we know it’s still really harmful for a lot of people.
Also, like you mentioned, another big one is jokes about weight gain during the quarantine. It’s highly triggering for people. Also having lots of free time now. Eating disorders love times when you have less to do and less structure. They really thrive on that. Being more socially distanced and disconnected from people in real life can be another big trigger.
I’ve had clients talk about struggles with being around food all the time and feeling more pulled to it and shaming themselves for that. So that’s another factor in this as well.
Then another big piece of it is the food scarcity component, which is highly triggering. We talked about that in the sense of people truly feeling like they have to ration their food – for instance, if they’re a high risk member of the population and they’re trying to limit the amount of times they go to the grocery store, that can bring up those feelings of scarcity.
Then the last big thing I think is just this worldwide feeling of uncertainty and anxiety. I think that can feel very out of control, and for many people, one of the functions of their eating disorder is “when the world feels out of control, then my eating disorder tells me I can control food and weight.”
Chris Sandel: Yeah, definitely. That is something I’ve found a lot with clients. It’s their way of getting certainty, their way of feeling like they are in control. Even if it’s creating un-control and uncertainty in every other part of their life, if you narrow the focus enough, it can give you that semblance of control. So yeah, that’s definitely something I’ve seen.
A couple that I would add – one is around productivity, just because there’s this real push that I’ve been seeing online of like “now is the time to use this time wisely and to finish off projects you’ve got started on or to learn a language” or whatever, and this real focus on productivity while, for a lot of people, this is a really difficult time. There’s not much space being created for dealing with the stress of this or the overwhelm of this or the fact that now you may be at home with your kids while trying to do work.
So this endless focus on “you’ve got to be capable and you’ve got to be putting in your best right now” when people are unable to do that and really struggling, there’s then the shame that comes along with that.
Jennifer Rollin: Right. It’s like you said – such a good point, because as a community, as a culture, we’re experiencing collective trauma for some people, and people’s mental illnesses can be exacerbated. Like you said, people are under more stress and more pressure. Then it’s like, “Not only am I expected to do something productive with this time – learn a language or all these things – I’m also supposed to homeschool my children and cook.” It’s just these crazy expectations that I think come from capitalism, in my opinion.
Chris Sandel: Yeah. You have that mix of, as you talked about, so much idle time because the structure of people’s lives looks so different, but at the same time there’s all this pressure of having to do all of these new things and to have to be productive. I think that really rattles people.
The other one – and this kind of links into the moralizing piece that you talked about before – is I’ve seen this slew of articles talking about how only the people who are dying are those that have preexisting conditions, but where the tone of it is this has been brought upon themselves, that if these people had made better choices, they would’ve had a milder form of the disease or they would’ve had a better immune system to be able to fight the disease, and that this is their fault.
There’s just this huge lack of compassion with that. But I see this as well from a perspective of if you’re struggling with an eating disorder, in the beginning, recovery very much feels like you are getting “unhealthy.” You’re having to eat more food or you’re having to do less exercise and all of these associations.
So if you’re now reading articles with this kind of tone, I can imagine how triggering that would be, like, “Am I really doing the right thing? Should I be doing this right thing?” It just really highlighted how, often, we view health in this society and how that can be really triggering for people.
Jennifer Rollin: Yeah, I think that’s such a good point. It’s so healthist and so shaming towards people of also saying “Don’t worry about coronavirus if you’re young and healthy. It’s only the old and chronically ill people who are going to have serious complications,” as if those people don’t matter. I can’t imagine being an individual in one of those communities, feeling like the general public is saying, “Oh, that’s just for people with underlying health conditions.”
And then, like you said, the moralizing around health, which I think can definitely play into people’s eating disorders, especially disorders like orthorexia where it is more focused on this obsessive idea of health. It plays into that fear of mortality and puts this sense of morality on food and other behaviors that are deemed as “healthy” by diet culture.
00:18:30
Chris Sandel: That’s a whole lot of not-positive stuff that we’ve talked about. Is there any silver linings, or is there any good things you’ve seen come out of this at this stage?
Jennifer Rollin: Yeah, I definitely have seen silver linings. I think it’s first important to validate that this is such a hard time for so many people. People are losing their jobs. There’s real pain and heartache here.
And for some people, there are silver linings, which include people reevaluating their relationship to movement, people being forced to not be at the gym who have maybe not been able to do that for a long time because of their mental illness, and learning to explore if they’re at a good place in their recovery where they can do more joyful forms of movement.
I think also people realizing that they can work remotely, so companies realizing that employees can work remotely, therapists being able to provide virtual support and virtual groups and get creative in certain ways.
Also people having more time and space – again, without having that productivity guilt-tripping idea, but having more time and space to do activities they enjoy that maybe they don’t have as much time for, usually, such as reading or yoga or whatever it is. There’s also been a lot of free offerings that I’ve been really enjoying. I think Audible is free right now, and other companies are giving free promotions of things, so that’s kind of cool.
I would say that those are some of the main silver linings that I’m seeing, but again, I think we also want to validate and acknowledge how hard this time is for so many people.
Chris Sandel: Definitely. I would just underscore one of those that you mentioned in terms of with gyms closing, it’s sort of like someone’s hand is now forced. For many people, having the gyms closed, if you have this compulsion to exercise, can be incredibly difficult, whereas for other clients, that can be the thing that helps to make that decision for them. They’re like, “Okay, this is now being taken out of my hands,” and they’re able to then get on with dealing with that. Sometimes just having a decision taken away from you can be useful if you’re in the right place.
I would say that for some clients – and this sounds kind of weird because of the situation we’re in in terms of more places being locked down, more social distancing – this has actually led to them becoming more connected. They’re more likely now to be ringing up people, they’re more likely to be doing FaceTime and video calls and all of that. They’re messaging, etc.
Out of this and out of the forced distance that is being put upon people, it’s almost like when something is taken away from you, you realize how much you miss it. So it’s getting people to connect because they now realize how much they want that in their life.
Jennifer Rollin: I think that’s such a good point, and I’ve definitely noticed that in my own life, even with coworkers and other people. We all have a text thread going on. Of course, we see each other in the office, but yeah, I think everyone’s realizing how important connection is right now.
00:22:05
Chris Sandel: I want to spend a bit of time focusing on some suggestions that can help make this time easier or more bearable. I know these will probably be counters to some of the things we talked about in terms of struggles to start with. What suggestions would you have for people?
Jennifer Rollin: There’s a bunch of suggestions, but I’ll try to narrow it down. I think first off, being mindful of and looking at from a place of curiosity and without judgment any food rules that you might currently be struggling with, and using this as a time to really start to challenge those rules and to recognize that packaged and frozen meals can be part of a healthy diet and you don’t have to have fear around them.
I think also coming up with a sense of loose structure, making sure it’s flexible and not rigid, but planning out your day a little bit with some flexibility so that you have more structure, things you look forward to – even planning a time when you’re going to do a meditation or a time when you’re going to FaceTime a friend.
Another strategy that I’ve been loving lately is this idea of – in dialectical behavioral therapy, we have something called a cope ahead plan. Thinking about coping ahead with coronavirus, you visualize and write down specific situations that you think could be big triggers or roadblocks for you during this time, and then you write down specific coping tools that you can use. So that’s another thing to do.
I think also maintaining recovery appointments and reaching out for virtual support – which is great because it’s pretty easily accessible to people around the world. Also making an effort not to isolate, because eating disorders love isolation. I’ve done lunch dates with people over video, thinking about FaceTime that you can do, texting.
The other thing that I would mention – again, there’s a lot of tips here – is when it comes to emotions, I think right now is a very stressful time for many people, and from my experience, many people with eating disorders struggle with identifying and processing emotions in a healthy way. So give yourself permission to feel your feelings without always having to numb out from them, and when you experience emotion, try to let yourself feel that feeling, notice what’s coming up for you, what it might be telling you. Maybe anger is telling me my boundary has been crossed or guilt is telling me I did something out of alignment with my values.
Then practice self-compassion is the final step of that. Telling yourself, “This is temporary. It will pass. It’s perfectly understandable I’m feeling this way. It’s okay for me to experience this feeling and let it out. I’m not alone in feeling this way.” I think that emotional self-care, that practice of really expressing and allowing your emotions with compassion, can really help us to get through this time.
Chris Sandel: You said Audible is free at the moment; I didn’t actually know that. I pay for Audible. I will be going in and seeing how may books I can download. But are there any books on that topic in terms of understanding emotions and compassion around emotions that you really like?
Jennifer Rollin: I love the book Self-Compassion by Dr. Kristin Neff. There was also a TED talk I was watching this morning where I was like, this is very much in alignment with my philosophy around emotion. It was really helpful. I can send it to you after this. It was shared in this group that I’m in. I’ll send you the link and maybe you can post it in the show notes.
Chris Sandel: I will definitely do that. I really like the suggestions you made there. I’m going to see if I can add some of them to this list.
Obviously there’s been changes in the kinds of foods that people will have available, with certain things selling out, with certain things now being foods that are more preferential if you can only make it to the store once every week or once every two weeks. So having this be a time where you get okay with eating more packaged food or frozen meals or dried foods in terms of pastas or rice or cereals and being okay with that because these are useful, healthy foods that can be part of a very regular diet, and at a time like this they hold certain values over other foods just from a shelf life perspective and from a practical perspective.
Like we were talking about before in terms of gyms being closed and maybe using that as an opportunity to deal with some of the stresses around that, I would say the same things around some of these foods and using this as a way to challenge some of your fears.
Another one – and I think you may have talked about this somewhere, but just being okay with eating emotionally, and that that will potentially come up more during this time and that that’s okay, and that emotional eating isn’t the only way to cope with difficult times, but it is also a completely normal process and a completely normal coping skill. So if that is happening more, then have compassion with yourself as to why it’s happening.
I’d also add so much of the preoccupation often with exercise is like “exercise is the thing that helps me to use all of the energy that I take in during the day,” and that is just not true. The body and the brain use a tremendous amount of energy even when you’re sitting still, feeling like you’re not doing very much at all. Your brain uses a huge amount of glucose. Your basal metabolic rate just to run all of your systems is using a lot. So even if you are less active during this time, that doesn’t mean that you don’t need food.
Just remembering that I think is important because I think sometimes for clients in the midst of all this, they’re like, “I didn’t go to the gym today so I don’t deserve to eat,” or “I don’t need to eat because obviously I haven’t used any energy.” I think that’s just nonsense.
Jennifer Rollin: Yeah, I think that’s such a good point. It’s funny because we’re so in alignment with that. I was talking about that idea, because it’s such a common struggle, in a live recently, and I was reading that your brain uses up to 20% of the glucose converted energy. It’s really important to remember that our energy needs are not going to change that much from being a little less active, and exercise is really a drop in the bucket when it comes to overall metabolic health and energy consumption.
Long story short, your body still needs a lot of food, even if diet culture is telling you otherwise.
Chris Sandel: The bit of research I always reference with this is from Robert Sapolsky’s Why Zebras Don’t Get Ulcers. He talks about chess grandmasters going through – I think it was something like 6,000 or 7,000 or 8,000 calories a day simply playing chess, and that’s just because they’re with such level of concentration and strategizing. But they’re not moving their bodies apart from picking up little pieces of wood and moving them on a board. They’re sitting still for many, many hours.
So yeah, it’s not just about having to be running or lifting weights or doing some form of exercise to use energy. Your body is using energy for a multitude of functions.
One of the things I would also suggest is just starting to look at how you’re spending your time on your phone and how productive or helpful this is. I know for myself, I’ve had periods of checking the news endlessly with everything that’s going on and realizing that that is wholly unhelpful in terms of my mental health and my state. I haven’t actually taken the app off my phone, but I’ve decided I’m going to check this once a day and that is it.
I would make the same suggestion with starting to look at how you’re spending your time on your phone. I don’t have Facebook on my phone, I don’t have Instagram on my phone, just because I know that they are a time suck for me, and I don’t get any benefit out of them. So if you find that you have Instagram on your phone and that really makes you feel better, and you’ve curated your news feed in a way that’s really helpful, then by all means just leave it there.
But start to just pay attention, because during this time there’s going to be more idle time or there’s going to be more of a pull towards “I want to have something that distracts me in the moment,” and if you’re wanting to be distracted in the moment, be distracted by something that then leaves you feeling more fulfilled or leaves you feeling better at the end of it than worse at the end of it.
Jennifer Rollin: I think that’s such a good point, and it’s something I’ve done for myself as well. Early on, I was tracking the news and reading all the recent articles, and now I try not to check more than once in the morning and maybe once in the evening. I just completely agree with surrounding yourself with more helpful messaging.
What I’ve done on Instagram is there are certain handles that are good news. One is called Upworthy. Another is the Good News Movement. They’re pages that only post positive, uplifting news. Then I also follow a bunch of animal accounts of cute animals doing different cute things. [laughs]
00:32:45
Chris Sandel: That sounds like a good dose when you’re checking Instagram to feel better about yourself. I’m trying to see what else I’ve got here in terms of ideas. Do you have suggestions in terms of boredom, if people are feeling like they’re bored or they’re struggling with feeling like they’ve got idle time and don’t know how to use that time? Have you got any suggestions on that front?
Jennifer Rollin: Yeah, definitely. One suggestion, which is something I actually did last week, is to make a bucket list, writing down goals that you want to achieve, places that you want to visit in your lifetime, reminding yourself that there is going to be life after coronavirus and that we’ll be able to move forward and we’re not going to be stuck in the house forever.
Also, practicing gratitude. Write down things that you’re thankful for.
Another exercise I like to do every couple of months is to write down goals for my life in different categories. That would include health, which includes mental health, relationships, career, hobbies, and to really get clear on what my goals are for myself. I know some people are more artistically inclined, so doing a scrapbook or a collage or a vision board.
Dancing. I’ve seen a lot of dancing videos on Instagram of people doing dance therapy, dancing to a favorite song.
There’s also tons of free classes online right now through different universities. If you google universities offering free classes, there’s one on happiness from Yale that I’m interested in doing, but I just need to remember to do. Lots and lots of free resources, including podcasts, online courses, TV shows on Netflix. There are a few good trashy ones that I’m watching to get my brain off of things.
It is a time where you could explore new hobbies, but again, it’s the motivation that’s behind it. If it’s coming from a place of “I have to be productive” or “I can’t sit with myself,” that’s not great. But if it’s coming from a place of “I’m bored,” it’s like, okay, why don’t you try to cook a new recipe or figure out how to grow plants? Or any other hobby.
Honestly, for me, there’s so much great content and information out there. I feel like it would be hard for me to be bored right now because there are so many things that you can listen to and watch and read.
Chris Sandel: Yeah. As you say, it’s striking that balance where it’s not “you have to go out and find a university course and start doing it,” but more about if you’re feeling like you’ve got the time and you’re inclined to do it, then by all means, go and check it out. You’re right, there is so much stuff available at the moment.
Jennifer Rollin: Right. I think one other thing, too, is this idea – there’s a quote, “When you feel helpless, help someone.” I think it’s great. Kindness and compassion are some of my big values. And I think getting outside yourself can be really helpful for people if they’re stuck in a rut, feeling sad, feeling bored. So thinking, “How can I be of service to other people in my life, even in a small way? Can I get groceries for an elderly person in my neighborhood? Can I send a new message to somebody?”
00:36:15
Chris Sandel: You made reference to lots of things to watch that you’re trying to go through. Is there any TV or movies or books or podcasts that you are enjoying right now that you think people should check out that have nothing to do with coronavirus, but could just be ways people could be filling their time if they need it?
Jennifer Rollin: Hundred percent. We can start with Netflix. Ooh, I just clicked on Netflix to try to pull it up to remember and then sound came on. Ignore that.
Yeah, there’s a lot to do, starting with, if you have a Netflix account, things on Netflix. I’m somebody who likes to watch – not mindless, but more like fun/silly TV as a good distraction. I just finished watching The Circle, which is not for everyone. It’s a little dumb, but it’s a social media competition that looks at social media strategy. I also watched Love Is Blind, which is a dating show which is very entertaining. Those were some things I watched recently.
I’ve been going through TED talks. I love to do that all the time, to just look at the most recent ones that are inspiring.
In terms of podcasts, if anybody is a therapist, or even if you’re not, if you’re interested in learning about different types of therapy from experts, I’ve been really into – a colleague told me about Therapy Chat. It’s a podcast that’s just talking with different leaders in the therapy field about different kinds of therapy. Then I also really like the Goal Digger Podcast. It’s more about marketing and online business. Those are some podcasts that I’ve been enjoying.
A lot of places right now are either running free online groups, if you just google or look on Instagram, and putting out free courses. I know my intern, for instance, sent me this morning Kristin Neff is doing a free course on self-compassion that she sent me. There’s loads of free meditations online as well. I think depending on interests, there are so many things to pursue.
Then one other thing I have to share that I did, just because I find it funny, is I read that not only is Broadway World giving a free 7-day subscription so you can watch some Broadway musicals from home – I was looking into that, but then you can also go take a virtual tour of all the national zoos. So I spent a little bit of time looking at the webcams of different animals the other day when I was bored as well.
00:38:55
Chris Sandel: Nice. That is quite a good mix of things people could check out. I’m trying to go back through some of the stuff I’ve watched. On Amazon Prime – was it Amazon Prime, or did I pay for it? I think I might’ve paid for it. There’s a film called Eighth Grade that I watched over the weekend, which was amazing. It really gives you a feeling of what it’s like being back as a 12-year-old or 13-year-old or 14-year-old. I’m not sure what age it is in the eighth grade. But I thought that was really well done, well-directed and well-acted. It was difficult viewing in some moments, but it was also quite sweet in others. So that would be one of my recommendations.
I’m starting to try and read a bit more and read purely for pleasure. I went through a phase of buying a huge amount of Murakami books that I never got through. Murakami is an incredible writer. I’m reading something called Kafka on the Shore at the moment. His book Norwegian Wood is probably the most straightforward, normal of his books, and then 1Q84 was the first of his that I read, which I think is amazing. So if you’re looking for something to read, Murakami is probably one of the people I would suggest.
But yeah, they’re the things that are coming to mind for me at the moment.
Jennifer Rollin: I’m going to have to check that out, because I’m a big reader, and one of my personal goals is to read more fiction because I tend to want to read a lot of nonfiction, and to read things more just for pleasure and fun. So I’ll definitely check that out.
Chris Sandel: He’s got I think 30-35 odd books. He’s a Japanese writer, but he’s then translated into English. Just really beautiful in terms of what he does, and all the bizarre elements that he brings into his novels. I enjoy them. I think they’re interesting reads.
00:41:05
Is there anything else you want to be adding here? I don’t want to drag this on any longer than we need to, but is there anything I haven’t asked or is there anything else you could offer for how to help people during this time?
Jennifer Rollin: One other thing I think is important to remember is that in terms of trying to keep some consistency and making sure you’re still supported, continue to make appointments with your treatment team.
Also, I know some people have been dislocated due to colleges letting out, things like that, so if for some reason you’re not able to see your provider anymore or you don’t have one, I think reaching out to people who can provide virtual support right now is really helpful because eating disorders in nature are very isolating, and right now is a very isolating time as well. Really trying to access as much support as you can get and as you can practically do right now I think makes a lot of sense.
Chris Sandel: I would second that as well, because I think during this time, as you said at the beginning, there’s that perfect storm of when things could get a lot worse with an eating disorder because of the scarcity, because of the isolation, because of all the fear that is coming up and all the things that we’re then seeing in social media around dieting and exercise, etc.
So yeah, I think now, more than any other time, it’s really important to be focusing on this and for people to be getting help if they haven’t already done that. And if they are already in treatment and are getting help at the moment, to continue on with that.
Jennifer Rollin: Yeah, absolutely.
Chris Sandel: Jennifer, where can people find out more about you if they want to be find out more about you?
Jennifer Rollin: They can reach out if they’re looking for virtual therapy to www.theeatingdisordercenter.com. Or they can follow along with me on Instagram, where I post a lot about coronavirus, tips for recovery, and other recovery-related things, @jennifer_rollin.
Chris Sandel: I will put all that in the show notes. Thank you so much for your time today. I think this is a really important thing that you’re doing in terms of providing this extra support for people during this time, because it is definitely a challenging time.
Jennifer Rollin: Awesome. Likewise.
Chris Sandel: That is it for this week. I hope you found that discussion useful. As I mentioned at the top, we are currently taking on clients. If the current situation has been making your food and exercise symptoms worse, then please get in contact. You can head over to seven-health.com/help for more details on booking a free initial chat and how we work with clients.
I will be back with another episode shortly. Until then, stay safe and look after yourself.
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